My first meeting with Bill, standing at his door lasted half an hour. He told me he saw the world as being in such a mess that there was no hope for it. At the time, the first Gulf war was on and economically things were rather bleak for a lot of people, including Bill who was bricklayer by trade, but currently out of work. As he expressed his thoughts and opinions on life, violence and corruptions etc, it became obvious that this man was a thinker, quite different from some whom I’d met who would take advantage of this time simply to emotionally, complain and blame.
When he used the words, “no hope” however, I told Bill that he was correct in one sense but incorrect in another because of what the New Testament tells us. I told him that I was filled with hope in the midst of hopelessness all around me because of what I read in that book. Bill wanted to know more so I shared some of the gospel of Jesus Christ with him. The word “gospel” means “good news,” and something of what he heard in those few minutes confirmed that meaning because there was a change, both in his speech and the look in his eyes.
At his request I revisited Bill the following week and this time he invited me inside. The main topic of conversation was once again on violence, dishonesty and corruptions and he wanted to know how we got into such a mess, “Why is the world so bad and corrupt? I’m concerned for my wife and seven year-old child.” So I gave him a book written by John Blanchard, “Ultimate Questions.” This is a thirty-two page book that asks some serious questions about God, man, Jesus Christ, sin, repentance, faith and living a new life in Jesus Christ. I said to Bill that if he would read it with openness and honesty, then many of his questions would be answered and as a result he would be less confused with what was going on around him.
One month later I called on Bill who told me his wife had just come home from hospital. Thinking I’d call back at another time, suddenly he gave me a welcoming look, he opened the door wider and said, “Come in.” As we sat down his wife Marlene came into the room with a newspaper and she read out an article which contained sexually perverted statements. She then said, “Isn’t that revolting? How come this world is so sick and decadent?”
It appeared to me that Marlene had not read the book I gave Bill, so I asked her, “Do you believe in sin?” She replied, “Of course I do. I’m a Catholic.” I then told her that I used to be a Catholic, but said it never stopped me from sinning. She gave me a strange look at first and then with a touch of anger in her eyes and speech, she said, “Why did you change your religion?” I ignored the question, with a question, “Do you believe in Adam & Eve?” Marlene’s face turned red and with increased anger she said, “No I do not! That’s just a silly story!”
I smiled at her and said, “Marlene, I’m not asking you to believe in them, I asked if you do believe in them.” My next question was to find out if she believed the Bible to be God’s word to man and with a quick reply she said, “No I don’t! Only the New Testament!” Then I asked her if she believed in Jesus Christ and what He said and did. More anger and a raised voice, “Of course I do! I told you, I am a Catholic!” Now I gave her a challenge. I said, “Marlene, Jesus believed in the Old Testament, so did the apostle Peter. They quoted from the Old Testament, knowing it was the word of God and they used it as their final authority.” She gave me a long angry look with silence. Then she said, “Where? Show me!”
So I did show her, from the four gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, also from the book of Acts and 1 Peter. Marlene had much trouble trying to understand Jesus as a Man on earth and being God at the same time. I explained that the Bible shows us that when He was on earth Christ emptied Himself of His divinity, laying aside His mighty power and glory, taking the form of a human servant, including mortality and death. Marlene told me, “I don’t believe it!” I replied that I was not asking her to believe it, “I’m just telling you what God says.” With the continued anger and loud voice, she then said, “How can you speak for God?! Who gives you that right?!”
This is not the first time I’d had a Catholic person ask me that two-in-one question – (Refer to my post, The Religious Spirit). I said to her that it is Jesus who gives me this authority and that if she would trust the Jesus who reveals Himself in His written word, which includes the Old Testament, she too could have the same authority. She said, “How do you know that?!” Wanting to now bring Bill into our conversation, I asked for some blank paper so I could explain by illustration the realities of Adam & Eve, Satan the devil, sin and God’s plan of redemption in Jesus Christ – all of it first revealed to us in Genesis 2 & 3.
Marlene fluctuated regularly between calmness and anger over the next five hours as I taught and illustrated. Not all of her anger was based on argumentativeness either, she was looking for answers. As a messenger of the Lord Jesus I knew that when truth begins to expose error and man’s religious doctrines, I must expect anger. So my job is to relax and allow the Holy Spirit to work through me, as Exodus 4:12 promises He will.
Like most Roman Catholic people I have met, Marlene could not easily come to terms with the simplicity of the Lord Jesus’ gospel message of repentance, forgiveness and the gift of eternal life. She said, “You have to pray and strive to be good! You have to do penance!” I replied, “Well Jesus said all you have to do is repent (turn away from yourself and turn to God in Jesus’ name), believe Him as Saviour and ask for forgiveness, then believe that you have it – ask and it shall be given to you.” Upon my completion of that statement to Bill and Marlene I could discern the Holy Spirit confirming the truth of it to them. It seemed He was saying to each, “That’s right. It’s true.”
Bill was not a Catholic so the questions kept coming from Marlene. She asked about Mary, the saints and the sacraments, but I simply replied by saying that in the Bible we see that God sent us only one Saviour, “and you can know Him like I do.” I’d been with them six hours now, so it was time to ask them together if they believed what had been explained to them, and they said, “Yes.” To confirm this I said, “Do you want to ask Jesus Christ to come into your lives and allow Him to be your Lord and Saviour?” They said, “Yes.” So together we bowed before God and I led them in a prayer of repentance and faith and God answered that prayer immediately. It was a beautiful sight to observe a husband and wife do that together.
Upon each subsequent visit with this couple, Marlene’s questions on biblical Christianity versus Roman Catholicism were numerous and naturally she struggled with the Scriptural revelations. I took the example of the apostle Paul and simply taught Christ – His reality and power for everyday living, His mercy, on-going forgiveness, peace, love and the opportunity to participate with Him in the miraculous if they so chose. Some months later, Bill found a job and purchased a home, but not in the area where I was ministering. “But I say this, that each of you says, I am of Paul, and I of Apollos, and I of Cephas, and I of Christ. Has Christ been divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized into the name of Paul?” 1 Corinthians 1:12.